One of the busiest people in disc golf.
February 19, 2025 by Charlie Eisenhood in News
Nate Heinold wears a lot of hats in disc golf. He is a prominent tournament director, who TD’ed the 2024 PDGA Pro World Championships (and will run the forthcoming 2026 Worlds) and has run Ledgestone and the Discraft Great Lakes Open for years. He’s the CEO of Ledgestone Disc Golf. He is the President of the PDGA Board of Directors. Last week, he answered questions from Reddit r/discgolf subscribers. Here’s a selection of interesting questions and answers from the Ask Me Anything. Some answers have been edited for length and clarity.
Because there’s a considerable conflict of interest, why don’t you resign from the board of the PDGA and just run tournaments and sell discs?
I think this is a legitimate question and criticism. At the end of the day, I am not voting (and the BOD is not voting) on who to award PDGA Majors to, as that is handled by the PDGA staff. And to be clear, I have never been able to vote to award myself a PDGA Major. But, the concern is still there, and I understand that. The bottom line is that there are still not enough bidding groups interested in running PDGA Majors. I have been asked to run a PDGA Major when the PDGA had zero bids for a specific major. I have been the only bidder for a PDGA Major multiple times.
What a lot of people don’t understand is that most of these events simply do not make money. We ran Master Worlds in 2022 and lost just under $10,000. I have run Junior Worlds twice, and we lost several thousand dollars each of those years. We lost money on DGLO in 2024. Our flagship Ledgestone event has lost money 8 of the 14 years I have run it. It’s “easier” to make a profit at high level, MPO/FPO events, but it’s honestly also riskier to run those events due to the finances involved. With events like Master Worlds, Junior Worlds, etc, the expenses are lower, but the revenue potential is not quite there because there is no spectator revenue for those events. In addition, the media value at those events to potential sponsors just doesn’t have the same impact since those events won’t be on Jomez or DGN. With DGPT events or Pro only Majors, the potential is higher due to media value and spectator revenue, but other expenses creep up like added cash.
I say all of that to say that I understand the criticism, but running large scale events is not yet to the point where it’s a guaranteed profit each and every time. It is really hard to run a one off event that you don’t get to run again the next year and make a profit from that. I think a lot of TDs who run a big event one time question whether or not they want to do it again because of the amount of work with the lack of a payoff. We simply don’t have enough TDs making money from their events, and that makes it challenging. I appreciate and understand the criticism, and I know that some people simply won’t believe what I say above, but it’s the reality. Specifically, as it relates to the conflict of interest issue, I get it, and understand the criticism. The PDGA does have processes in place to keep that conflict minimized as much as possible. I work closely with the PDGA BOD and staff to ensure that things are above-board, and I think that most BOD members and staff that I have worked with would attest to me trying to do things the right way.
Has the PDGA considered a more open bidding process for Worlds so that all members know who has actually bid for it? This past award for instance we know that there were 4 bids but not who they were. Who were they? Have you ever had another bidder upset with you after losing a bid against you?
This is a great question and I would support this. There may be reasons to keep the bidders confidential, but I am not aware of what those reasons may be. I do know there were 4 bids spread between 2026 and 2027 Pro Worlds based on the publicly released information (Portland was obviously one of the four bidding parties, as they got the bid for 2027. Estonia was one of the bidding groups, as they publicly announced they were bidding. I am not sure who the other bid came from). So there were 2 events available (2026 and 2027 Pro Worlds) with 4 bidding parties.
Do you think the PDGA is making the best decisions for the growth of the sport? What can the PDGA be doing better? Why do you think people have a negative viewpoint of the PDGA?
I do think the PDGA is doing a lot to grow the sport and is making a lot of the right decisions, but there is only so much one organization can do. The PDGA is responsible for a lot of things and growing the sport is definitely one of my top priorities, and more certainly needs to be done. A lot of organizations need to work together to make this happen. In terms of people having a negative viewpoint of the PDGA, I see the comments and hear the criticisms, but at the end of the day, I think most people join the PDGA because they want a rating and want to play in sanctioned events and they don’t care about anything else and are generally happy with things. The PDGA actually does a lot more than that, but in general, I think most members just care about those two things. The price of a PDGA membership has not changed in a very long time. I understand that some members were unhappy with changes to how we issue the magazine, but those changes to go more digital are good for the environment and were necessary changes to allow us to invest in other initiatives to move the mission of the organization forward.
The PDGA has been investing a lot of funds and money in many initiatives and we need to do a better job showing our members where their money is going. I think we are on a better path in showing members where we invest their dollars. We have additional investments we are making now and some of those will be available to the public soon enough.
How do we get more outside sponsors into disc golf?
Getting more outside sponsors in disc golf is a great question. It’s an area where I have focused extensive efforts. At the end of the day, those outside sponsors are looking for more eyeballs on the sport of disc golf. So while there have been successes (Merrell, Barbasol, LL Bean, Gerrit Verburg, Guaranteed Rate), we need sustained success, and we will get there. But when I talk to these large organizations, they are looking for things like the number of disc golfers in the United States, the number of viewers watching live coverage, the number of spectators on the ground watching disc golf, the size of email subscriber lists for various entities, etc. We are getting there, but those sponsors will need to see an ROI to invest in disc golf.
I think we have seen a lot of success in getting some key companies to invest in disc golf, but the key is getting them to stick. With some of our larger partnership deals that have been sustained, we work closely with them on tracking their sponsorship. With Merrell, for instance, we print over 10,000 coupon codes every year to give out to players and spectators at our events. Those coupon codes get those players and spectators 30% off, and then Merrell can start to track the lifetime value of those customers. We also do some marketing for Merrell through our channels with special disc golf codes. I think that creativity is what it takes to get companies to stick in the industry with their sponsorships, but at the end of the day, it’s dollars and cents. Those sponsors want to see customers use those codes and become customers of those brands, and they want a way to track how they won that customer.
What’s up with the name Ledgestone? It was an insurance company with like 50 employees who sponsored the tournament initially, right? Why did you give your company their name, and are they still involved? Did their owner approve of you using the name? How do they feel about the scale of Ledgestone disc golf today?
Good question, Ledgestone was a golf course in Florida that the founder of the insurance company played when he was thinking of forming the company. He took that name and ran with it. Ledgestone has never really sponsored the disc golf tournament. I started working as an insurance agent at Ledgestone in 2010 and created the disc golf event to promote the insurance agency. I eventually became Vice President and used the tournament to grow my client base in Central Illinois. I didn’t take any profits from the event and lost money most years but considered it an investment in my insurance brand. In 2015, things started to get a bit more serious, so I put some additional effort and volunteer resources into the event. In terms of the original owner being involved, he comes to the event every year and is fascinated that we now host the largest disc golf event in the world. They approve of the name and allow me to use the name and it definitely has benefited the agency.
Disc golf’s lifeblood is grounded in volunteerism. TDs often take no money and give countless hours of time and energy toward events. Two questions: 1. Do you think this volunteer (unpaid) TD culture is sustainable? 2. What are your views on TDs making money from events?
To answer the first part of your question, no, it’s not sustainable for TDs to be volunteers and not make money for their time. The future of disc golf will hopefully see more TDs making a living from running events. Right now, we aren’t there. Even within Ledgestone, our events side of the business is the lowest profit margin of any of the things that we do. Course design, wholesale, and retail are all much more profitable ventures than the events that we run. We certainly are trying to change that, but it is tough to consistently run profitable events. TDs need to be able to make money for their time and I think the culture in our sport is slowly changing to be more accepting of that.
One of the most common misconceptions I get is that Ledgestone is so profitable because all of the player pack items are donated. In 2024, if we took the actual cost of our player packs ($153 per player), added in the AM Payout expenses, added in PDGA fees paid per player, added in our food costs per player, course costs per player, etc, we spent $219 per amateur player at the 2024 Ledgestone event with a $190 entry fee. We obviously bring in sponsor and tourism revenue to help offset those costs, but those numbers don’t even include our temporary staffing costs, which are $100,000+ for Ledgestone.
I would ask that you reconsider how you set prices and perks for spectator DGPT events.
I attended DGLO in 2023 and it felt like the experience was designed to force you into getting a VIP pass. Most of the amenities and viewing areas for non-VIP were subpar, not well defined, and confusing. However, $150 to watch disc golf for a weekend is a steep price, and this makes bringing people who aren’t highly invested in the DGPT (significant others, children, casual players, etc.) too cost prohibitive to be worth it. At a certain point, it’s just a much better use of time and money to spend that $150 on the Amateur event at DGLO, get the players pack (great job on those), and then watch the pros on Jomez the next day.
I see a lot of the success of the European events. Based on discussions I’ve had with Europeans here, they focused on having cheap tickets with good amenities. It seems like it did them wonders given the crowd turnout.
I think this is a legitimate point and concern. At the end of the day, I have looked really closely at this issue. On one hand, while DGLO made a profit in 2022 and 2023, the event lost money in 2024. Would it be better to lower prices for spectators to try to get more people to come watch the event in person, hoping they spend money at our pro shop and other vendors, thus driving up revenue in those areas? Perhaps. The issue is that the events do have bills to pay, and spectator revenue is a very important piece of that.
One of the differences in the events in Europe vs. US events are the payouts. The European event payouts significantly lag behind US events by a wide margin. The European Disc Golf Festival (which was a great event to watch in 2024) had a payout of $63,243 in 2024. Ledgestone’s pro payout was $144,700. The 2024 European Open (also an amazing event) had an event payout of $102,437 while the PDGA Champions Cup had a payout of $145,000.
It’s already very expensive to compete in those events for a majority of the touring pros (who mostly reside and compete in the US), and so I do think the lower payouts in Europe are driven by the lower spectator price model. I think if we could lower the payouts proportionally for US events, I would be in support of this, but I don’t think that would go over well with the players. I can tell you that we have looked closely at this issue and VIP pricing for 2025 DGLO for all 4 days is in the $120 range and we have kept GA pricing flat the last two years. We are also really studying this issue and doing surveys to make sure we enhance the spectator experience while providing the benefits that people actually want. There are also simply things that just cost a lot of money, and we need to pay for those benefits. At the 2024 DGLO event, we had a catch cam video board and two viewing platforms. Those benefits were received really well, but collectively those three items cost over $25,000. It’s a tough balance to determine where to invest while keeping things affordable.
Why do you feel the need to stand in front of paying spectators with your posse of friends at every event you TD? I’ve never once seen you actually make a call, rather you get all clammy and find the closest PDGA employee the second anything happens. So why do you feel the need to put you and 4 of your best friends in between the players and the fans? This is a genuine question.
I’ve been to 20+ DGPT events, four of them being yours, and you legitimately are the only employee, TD, volunteer that does this.
I try to be present out on the course when I can as much as I can during big events. I try to be active in crowd control akin to what Jussi Meresmaa does at the European Open. I have made rule calls at nearly every DGPT event I have ever run. At the 2023 DGLO event, I had to make three different rule calls during the final round.
With that in mind, I think your criticism is legitimate, and over the last few years I have done my best to try to allow spectators to have a great view of the action while still being able to do my job. Behind the scenes, it’s my job to give spectators the ability to watch the event but also keep the players safe and allow them the space to compete and not feel claustrophobic. There have been times when players have told me they feel uncomfortable with how close spectators are to them on the teepad, and it’s my job and my staff’s job to keep that barrier present between the players and the spectators. There have been times when players have asked me or my staff to escort them straight to their car after their round because they aren’t in the mood for autographs. I try to be respectful of the player’s wishes while trying to give the spectators what they want.
As someone who used to only bag Discraft, I have a few questions about the way that Ledgestone’s partnership with the company:
1: How exactly does the choice of disc/plastic work between the two companies? Do you guys pick what you’ll run for each season or does Discraft just send you runs of discs for you to throw stamps on?
2: Is there any sort of barrier to Discraft producing some of the blends that they send to you guys that you know about? The discs that come from Ledgestone seem to largely be combinations of multiple of their stock plastics that are rarely released by Discraft themselves.
2: If the answer to question one is that Ledgestone chooses, how do you decide when to re-run discs? Is it just based on sales?
You guys sell some amazing discs which is oddly the reason that I have started taking Discraft out of my bag. When you get a perfect Z-Sparkle-FLX-Lite Force (hyperbole) from Ledgestone, it makes you feel happy to bag it and then sad that you’ll never be able to find a replacement.
These are good questions. Discraft focuses on making stock discs and making things in larger numbers to sell to their wholesale customers. They don’t focus on making one off runs of 1000 discs or less in unique plastic combinations with molds that are not as popular. Discraft allows me and other vendors to mix and match certain molds with various plastic combinations as long as we are able to hit the minimum quantities. There are a lot of other vendors who do special runs as well. We are more known for it because we do them in such a high quantity. Ledgestone has honestly been known for running molds that haven’t been run for years, or taking plastic combinations that are not widely available, as our goal is to provide something unique to the market. Sometimes, those runs fly much differently than stock runs due to the various plastic combinations, and we find that customers value this. In terms of when to re-run a disc, it’s basically just based on supply and demand. If enough of our customers (either retail or wholesale) are demanding it, then we try to get it on the schedule for a re-run.
